Bracket 1 - Discussion

[hellrazor]

Generally for Presentation, I would probably just grade based on how well they showcase the stepfile. It seems like the theme of this category has been how well people do with graphics/videos/full set of stepcharts and whatnot based on some of the reviews.
Once they choose the song for their stepfile, they can't really change that aspect of it. Maybe if the cut/splicing of the audio is unbelievably bad, it could get some marks docked off in Presentation.
If you're turned off by the audio, maybe put some negative value in tilt or something.

But why mark down for lack of stepcharts when only 2 were required? Video also isn't required. If that's the case then 10-Hard 10-Standard 5-Graphics and MAYBE 1 for song choice. So if a file has just 2 charts, killer graphics, but I really cannot stand the song at all (or if it goes to long or is to short or a bad cut or bad samplestart etc) the worst I can give it is a 24. And if a file has all step charts, killer graphics, lyrics, video, and a very brave song choice (like a live drummer and they nailed all the BPM changes) the best I can give it is 26/25. At least song-choice is something you have control over and I want to be able to sway the score by more than just the 1 tilt point for song choice. Especially if others are docking points for unrequired aspects like no video, minimal step charts.

I would think I can judge the files how I want to and be able to dock more points for song choice as long as I am fair and consistent throughout. If BlueSS disagrees then I'll need to know now since I'm almost done with DDRB1-2 and I can go back and modify scores now but in my opinion the song is the most important part of the presentation and if I don't like the song I should be able to grade it down based on my own preference.

[joe2]

Generally for Presentation, I would probably just grade based on how well they showcase the stepfile. It seems like the theme of this category has been how well people do with graphics/videos/full set of stepcharts and whatnot based on some of the reviews.

But why mark down for lack of stepcharts when only 2 were required?

I completely agree with hellrazor on this. It seems kind of cheap when the contest says that other difficulties are completely optional, yet people can turn around and dock others for not creating them. If anything, this seems more like it belongs in tilt or something.

[will-i-am]

Who's docking points for excluding bonus material? Imma get'em!

[Excel]

But why mark down for lack of stepcharts when only 2 were required? Video also isn't required.

I dunno, I would probably have these extra components as more of an additive thing, so I wouldn't dock points if they didn't have them. They aren't required, but they can help push a presentation score up if done nicely. Not sure what to say about a full set, since most of the time I just focus on the two hardest charts.
I wouldn't make it like a checklist though. Taking a video as an example, if the video is awesome and works well with the stepfile, that'll be something to consider, but if it doesn't really do much/is really really bad, then it doesn't affect the score/affects the score negatively, or something like that.

If that's the case then 10-Hard 10-Standard 5-Graphics and MAYBE 1 for song choice. So if a file has just 2 charts, killer graphics, but I really cannot stand the song at all (or if it goes to long or is to short or a bad cut or bad samplestart etc) the worst I can give it is a 24. And if a file has all step charts, killer graphics, lyrics, video, and a very brave song choice (like a live drummer and they nailed all the BPM changes) the best I can give it is 26/25. At least song-choice is something you have control over and I want to be able to sway the score by more than just the 1 tilt point for song choice. Especially if others are docking points for unrequired aspects like no video, minimal step charts.

I think a score of 25 or 26 is already just saying, this stepfile is already amazing/perfect/god tier.
I'm hopefully assuming that there won't be any horribly painful audio in any of these entries. I never entirely thought about this. I think I might be lenient with song choice (not necessarily cut/sample start) anyway, but I should think about what I need to do if the audio is terrible.

I would think I can judge the files how I want to and be able to dock more points for song choice as long as I am fair and consistent throughout. If BlueSS disagrees then I'll need to know now since I'm almost done with DDRB1-2 and I can go back and modify scores now but in my opinion the song is the most important part of the presentation and if I don't like the song I should be able to grade it down based on my own preference.

No worries, I was saying how I might judge the stepfiles on that category...if I do judge them eventually. People have different review styles and I don't want to forcefully convert them to my own haha, but it's good to explain your thought processes on reviewing style if need be! :] (Although if I have bad flaws in some of my reasoning, it's good to point them out just so that I won't grade unfairly).
I guess that question might have been more for BlueSS then.

[BLueSS]

I would think I can judge the files how I want to and be able to dock more points for song choice as long as I am fair and consistent throughout. If BlueSS disagrees then I'll need to know now since I'm almost done with DDRB1-2 and I can go back and modify scores now but in my opinion the song is the most important part of the presentation and if I don't like the song I should be able to grade it down based on my own preference.

Disclaimer: I hate drama. When I have to deal with drama, I used to try to make everyone happy.
Not anymore; this is the last tournament so I'm making a ruling. If you're happy with it; great. If not, you better not whine about it; because this is the last tournament and it's going to be fun, even if I have to ban people to make it that way. :)

Here's the breakdown: Presentation is an overarching category designed to encompass the rest of the entry that isn't the steps. This should include all aspects of the rest of the file, to prevent one factor outweighing the others.

So for example: a file is entered with MS Paint graphics but has a well timed lyrics file and good audio cut that they had to manually make themselves. The score should not just reflect "these graphics suck" but should also take into account the rest of the factors. That file should *not* get a 0/5.

Another example: Song choice. This has been the hot topic in every simfile tournament. Some tournaments have explicitly created a category for this - but I've enjoyed taking the opposite approach of "it's part of the overall file." Just because I may not like an anime theme song (I don't honestly like most anime songs, just the way I am), it doesn't mean that they couldn't have a great file with great steps. In cases like this, it would be wrong for me to put down the work they put into the entry (if it is indeed good work) simply because I don't like the anime song. BUT, if the song was low quality, or had a bad cut, or the graphics were bad AND the file was off sync, then the points should be taken away on the Presentation.

Presentation should reflect effort put into the file; not whether you personally disliked the effort or not. This is not a new ruling for "Presentation". This has always been the idea behind it.

Song choice will already have a huge impact in the patterns/step options available. An Irish gig will be setup for gallops; while a J-Pop song may not be more complex than 4th and 8th notes. The song is *so tied* to the steps, that this is already factored into the scores that a file gets when one reviews the charts. Marking a file off, because you didn't like the song is silly. Nobody is going to like every single song submitted, and if we all voted that way we might as well go to the finals with the pop and bemani crossover songs (judging by past popular songs).

If you are going to judge an entry *simply because you didn't like the song*, you don't get the spirit of the competition. "I didn't like the song choice" should go in tilt. Note: I will not be enforcing a rule saying what has to be set rules for judging, just know that everyone else here will know what you're doing.

Significantly marking down a presentation score due to personally not liking the song choice and not properly considering the other factors is not proper judging, and the scores should be re-evaluated. There have been many ways past reviewers would more heavily critique the steps instead of dismissing the song choice; and that is perfectly acceptable. This contest is about making good steps to a song (and someone liked the song, otherwise they probably wouldn't step it). This contest is not a popularity contest for which song is the most popular right now, or liked by the most people. (Sorry, Gangnam Style)

[BLueSS]

Who's docking points for excluding bonus material? Imma get'em!

I'm going to get them too, because that's not proper judging either if people are doing that.

If anyone has judging concerns, PM me. I will not be proactively acting on behalf of any file unless I get a PM.

[k//eternal]

This contest is not a popularity contest for which song is the most popular right now, or liked by the most people. (Sorry, Gangnam Style)

i think we all have to admit that (especially as this isn't exactly a "professional" competition but rather just a bunch of hobbyists here for fun) it's kind of hard to put aside your own overall feeling about a file and talk about its quality in an entirely objective manner

that said, this being the last best-mix it's probably worth trying for that ideal as much as possible

[hellrazor]

This contest is not a popularity contest for which song is the most popular right now, or liked by the most people. (Sorry, Gangnam Style)

i think we all have to admit that (especially as this isn't exactly a "professional" competition but rather just a bunch of hobbyists here for fun) it's kind of hard to put aside your own overall feeling about a file and talk about its quality in an entirely objective manner

that said, this being the last best-mix it's probably worth trying for that ideal as much as possible

I restored the points I took off in presentation for my dislike of the song. Let's have a friendly competition everyone.

[BLueSS]

This contest is not a popularity contest for which song is the most popular right now, or liked by the most people. (Sorry, Gangnam Style)

i think we all have to admit that (especially as this isn't exactly a "professional" competition but rather just a bunch of hobbyists here for fun) it's kind of hard to put aside your own overall feeling about a file and talk about its quality in an entirely objective manner

that said, this being the last best-mix it's probably worth trying for that ideal as much as possible

I restored the points I took off in presentation for my dislike of the song. Let's have a friendly competition everyone.

Thank you, hellrazor. :)

k//eternal, I totally admit there will still always be personal bias, no matter how much you try not to have it. I mean, just look at the varying opinions people have about "karaoke steps". ;)

[BLueSS]

Bah, I hate when I post and the discussion dies afterwards. :p

So who else is planning to post some scores for songs before the Friday judging deadline? :)

[DjJRun]

I'm planning on scoring more brackets...prior commitments have been killing my time!

Quick question though... I know we have to rate every song within a bracket with the same judging option, but what about across brackets? I used option 1 on DDR1-1 but don't know if I'd have time to do that for every bracket.

[BLueSS]

Quick question though... I know we have to rate every song within a bracket with the same judging option, but what about across brackets? I used option 1 on DDR1-1 but don't know if I'd have time to do that for every bracket.

You can mix and match between brackets.

[aurae]

I'll vote as well once I get around to it (probably tomorrow).

[Telperion]

I'm planning on full out-of-25 scoring for ITG and approval vote w/ ad-hoc feedback for DDR this time around (to help balance the usual sparse voting that happens in ITG brackets, and because I usually have more refined suggestions for ITG charts). Also planning to play through the brackets I'm in if I have time :3

[Valex]

I'm planning on full out-of-25 scoring for ITG and approval vote w/ ad-hoc feedback for DDR this time around (to help balance the usual sparse voting that happens in ITG brackets, and because I usually have more refined suggestions for ITG charts). Also planning to play through the brackets I'm in if I have time :3