BEST-mix is a DDR & ITG simfile tournament, and is the longest running competition of its type.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:24 am 
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Kamek wrote:
..."Karaoke steps" are when the arrows go exactly with the lyrics or the main melody...if the entire file consists of karaoke steps it usually shows a general lack of creativity on the author's part...


Calling bull on this one, and not saying that you're dumb or anything, but this is a big thing that I've always wanted to nip in the bud that is a big misunderstanding that a lot of people pass up. Generally, if there are multiple difficulties in any given file, this may be intentional. This is probably one of the greater biases in simfile making because people believe that the closer to on-the-dot you are, the less creative you are...when the truth is that the more abstract you are, the more prone you are to getting a lot of people looking at you and going 'wtf were you thinking; this makes no sense'. It's a very hard thing to consider either way.

What about actual flow? You know...moving your body around? If you ever see a 'karaoke file', try to see what they're using for pattern first. Now if it's just the same thing throughout, < V ^ > (repeat) etc. etc. then you've likely found a dud file and you're likely correct. If the same thing shows evident throughout all the difficulties, once again you're looking at a probably shit file.

BUT, if it's body movin' stuff to where they've actually got you doing some fun things then the likelihood is that they're making it fun on you to move your ass around will generally making it easier on you to remember what you're padding. That's what a lot of people don't look at when they're judging pad steps. I don't know how many times I've seen people review these things and completely miss what you're ACTUALLY DOING ON PAD. Keep in mind that not all step combinations are perfect flow, regardless of karaoke or not. I'd be more compelled to worry about that than this problem.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:36 am 
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Kamek wrote:
I'm not sure what the globally-accepted term for this is, but when the same arrow is repeated multiple times, usually in an 8th note stream, I call them "echo steps", after the ITG modifier which does the same thing.


I've also heard that term called "jackhammers".


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:38 am 
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aka jacks.

See KBMP's Jack.


Last edited by Hiryuu on Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:39 am 
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i'd rather not :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:32 am 
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Kamek wrote:
I'm not sure what the globally-accepted term for this is, but when the same arrow is repeated multiple times, usually in an 8th note stream, I call them "echo steps", after the ITG modifier which does the same thing.

Echo is one of a ton of insert mods (echo, quick, big, wide, BMRize, planted and twister are most of the others, but I think there's one more that I'm too lazy to remember) that were all included in SM3.9, and I believe most if not all in SM3.0 as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:36 am 
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What do you guys think of actually making some sort of "term dictionary" to aid in discussion/future contests?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:56 am 
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Hiryuu wrote:
Kamek wrote:
..."Karaoke steps" are when the arrows go exactly with the lyrics or the main melody...if the entire file consists of karaoke steps it usually shows a general lack of creativity on the author's part...


-wall of text-


I basically agree with what you said. I didn't mean to say that karaoke steps are always bad, only when it's the same boring patterns over and over again. I'm probably guilty of "karaoke stepping" myself, but I try to vary it up at least. The big issue I have with these patterns is that when the singer or melody holds out a long note, there's usually a long freeze arrow involved with nothing else happening while that note is being held. This really annoys me for some reason.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:07 pm 
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Kamek wrote:
The big issue I have with these patterns is that when the singer or melody holds out a long note, there's usually a long freeze arrow involved with nothing else happening while that note is being held. This really annoys me for some reason.

What's the alternative? A BPM pause? Or adding steps when there might not be any part of the song that warrants them?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:11 pm 
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BLueSS wrote:
Kamek wrote:
The big issue I have with these patterns is that when the singer or melody holds out a long note, there's usually a long freeze arrow involved with nothing else happening while that note is being held. This really annoys me for some reason.

What's the alternative? A BPM pause? Or adding steps when there might not be any part of the song that warrants them?


I see where Kamek is coming from here. Imagine a song with a real nice beat and the stepper decides to just put a long freeze to go with a lyric. A lot of the times its really awkward to not put at least -something- to the beat of the music.

Obviously, this varies from song to song. A long freeze going with a vocal is appropriate a lot of the time. Sometimes, it's not. It's very song dependent.

Keep in mind real DDR charts tend to do both.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:18 pm 
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I dunno, maybe throw in a couple of quarter notes during the freeze or something. I mean, it's fine if you do it once or twice, but if the same lyric gets the same freeze every single time with no other steps during the freeze it gets rather boring.

Also, what Zounder said. If there's still a beat in the background, I'd prefer to make use of the beat instead of just holding a freeze arrow for an exorbitant amount of time.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:32 am 
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Kamek wrote:
I dunno, maybe throw in a couple of quarter notes during the freeze or something.


As much as I'd be agreeing with you up to here, if the arrows have to be added for the sake of being added then they don't belong in the chart. To me, providing an auxiliary task while holding a freeze isn't in itself enough to justify inserting those arrows. Indeed, more in line with your original thinking, if I do have to insert otherwise meaningless arrows to justify a long hold, that usually points to a problem to the original hold rather than the arrows I'm adding.

In any case, whenever people make a hard simfile "rule", I go out of my to try and break it. And then when I do, most people complain because they can't understand my justification. ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:11 pm 
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I'd tend to agree with that, and there again with the purpose of being abstract or original so goes the problem of being criticized for it with the whole 'genius is never understood in its own time'.

Course if you're annoying with the sim, you're annoying. :\


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:34 am 
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BLueSS wrote:
What do you guys think of actually making some sort of "term dictionary" to aid in discussion/future contests?


I think this would be a great idea.


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