BEST-mix is a DDR & ITG simfile tournament, and is the longest running competition of its type.

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 Post subject: Re: DDR BRACKET 1 RESULTS
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:05 pm 
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the whole point of approval vote is that it's uncomplicated, though. if you want to get into the nuances of "this file was a little bit better", that's what reviews are for, especially since if you're going there you probably have more valuable feedback to offer than someone who doesn't have the time to get into those details

they're definitely pretty hefty in terms of influence as it is, though. maybe 3 points would have been more reasonable

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 Post subject: Re: DDR BRACKET 1 RESULTS
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:09 pm 
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I'm gonna feel really weird if any kind of change to the current scoring system that could potentially occur actually results in my file advancing. I don't want to sound like I'm whining about the scoring system because my file didn't advance. I just pointed it now because I had been operating under a different interpretation of the scoring system until it was clarified.

If there does end up being a change, maybe just implement it in bracket 2? Unless uniformity is a concern, but I'm not sure how the next round works so I don't know if uniformity is important going forward.

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 Post subject: Re: DDR BRACKET 1 RESULTS
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:18 pm 
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Hey everyone, I'm writing up a post so any discussion about the old formula isn't relevant currently.
Please let me update, and we can continue discussing then. :)

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 Post subject: Re: DDR BRACKET 1 RESULTS
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:32 pm 
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Here's the update on Bracket 1 scoring and what happened.

First off, here's what I put in the rules:
Code:
Scores will be averaged by total number of points divided by total number of reviews and approval voters for each particular entry.


When planning for the tournament, there was a discussion on scoring, with several methods and calculation methods trying to make this as fair as possible, while allowing a wide variety of reviewing options depending on how much time someone had to play the files and give feedback.

My goals for the first round in every tournament I run has been focused around thorough reviews and deep feedback for the files, so everyone who entered could get feedback on their files. That did not change this time around, although the formula first published did not reflect that.

I did not properly communicate to will-i-am about the formula change, which was intended from the start of the tournament, and which is as follows:
will-i-am's formula wrote:
sum of all points

BLueSS's intended formula wrote:
(sum of reviews / # of reviews) + (sum approval / # of total approval voters)

My intended formula change does make approval voting worth very little early on at this point in the contest. The reviews should be the majority (and they are) of what determines which files move on.

That said, I have updated the scoring sheets.
Even with the intended update, the results did not change.


There are 42 files moving on to the semi-finals, where files will be grouped into 4 file packs (as stated in the rules). Due to 42 being 2 short of an even 4 in each bracket, it was intended from the start of the tournament to have the last 2 slots be reserved for any two files from B1 and B2 that didn't make it (via a simple vote for which songs get the wildcard). That was not announced yet, but I feel like this is the best time to bring this up.

Here's the link to the updated scores.


Edit:
hellrazor's review of Gangnam style and the lack of people voting for it in approval votes caused it to narrowly miss 3rd in its tough bracket. As you can see from the scores, 4th place was narrow in other brackets as well, so it wasn't the only one that narrowly missed moving on!

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 Post subject: Re: DDR BRACKET 1 RESULTS
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:38 pm 
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If anyone feels the judging change (that didn't change anything) is unfair, please PM me. Scores are final, so if you have a problem I'd be happy to discuss over AIM/PM, but not in the forum.

The results will not be changed from what they are, but there is the wildcard so 2 files (from B1 or B2) will still get to move on to the next round.

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 Post subject: Re: DDR BRACKET 1 RESULTS
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:07 am 
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that was an unexpected result


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 Post subject: Re: DDR BRACKET 1 RESULTS
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:28 am 
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Ikr? I thought you were a shoo-in for 1st, too.


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 Post subject: Re: DDR BRACKET 1 RESULTS
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:42 am 
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Congrats to all moving-on-ers.

It looks like I might have moved on in bracket 1-1 or 1-2, but looking at the formula it's not really fair to do that. 1-2's scores are much lower due to lack of complete reviews. (1-1 I definitely think I had a shot.) On top of that, I know some people liked it so I'm going to be happy with that, particularly with the song choice I made.

I never played anything in my bracket (time restrictions) so I didn't know if it was a tough one or not; looks like it was. I don't think I'll pull a wildcard against Gangnam Style and/or whatever comes out of Bracket 2 either.

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 Post subject: Re: DDR BRACKET 1 RESULTS
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:19 am 
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BLueSS wrote:
Edit:hellrazor's review of Gangnam style and the lack of people voting for it in approval votes caused it to narrowly miss 3rd in its tough bracket. As you can see from the scores, 4th place was narrow in other brackets as well, so it wasn't the only one that narrowly missed moving on!

To me it looks like GS and TM both made it through the judging with the same exact score, it was in the Approval Voting that TM got more votes than GS and advanced.

Also only 1 set of full reviews for DDR B1-2 and they were mine. The more voters the better, and the best way to vote is the full review. Join in everyone that has time, or make some time.


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 Post subject: Re: DDR BRACKET 1 RESULTS
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:16 am 
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BLueSS's intended formula wrote:
(sum of reviews / # of reviews) + (sum approval / # of total approval voters)


That makes more sense. I'm kind of glad to see the places don't change, though. I don't feel bad this way!

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 Post subject: Re: DDR BRACKET 1 RESULTS
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:35 am 
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Well, you shouldn't feel bad for bringing the topic up! This is something that should have been discussed in full before the contest even started. BLueSS and I bounced around an example of how the system could work, but we never dealt with averaging out each judging category or experimenting with which averages to use. We just averaged the end result, which obviously doesn't matter in the current system, but the reason why I even ever brought up averages was because I had the idea of allowing partial reviewers to submit actual partial reviews. As in people could only grade 3 out of the 6 files and still have their reviews counted.

By our example, the results placed even more favor in the approval voters, because with files that didn't receive partial reviews, less say was given to those who submitted reviews. In the end, we ousted the ability to submit incomplete partial reviews, but we never presented an example of the updated system.


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 Post subject: Re: DDR BRACKET 1 RESULTS
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:37 am 
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Really surprised Gangnam Style didn't make it. That file was pretty solid overall and actually fun.
The rest were mostly expected.

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 Post subject: Re: DDR BRACKET 1 RESULTS
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:00 pm 
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Bracket 1 Results are being amended. For details on why, please see this post.

Bracket 1 will be rescored without hellrazor's reviews.
All of the files that originally moved on will still move on.
Any files that would have moved on will ALSO move on.

There will still be a wildcard.

Songs additionally moving on to the next round include:
Totalimmortal - DDR Bracket 3 (bumped up to 2nd place)
I'll be there for you Zero no tsukaima F - Will still move on

Gangnam Style - DDR Bracket 4 (also bumped up to 2nd place)
Trial Machine PheoniX WrighT - Will still move on

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 Post subject: Re: DDR BRACKET 1 RESULTS
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:24 am 
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Back from the dead! w00t! :)

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