Bracket 1 - Discussion

[Zounder]

I wouldn't think it requires memorization. It's simply a case of "If I'm about to turn my back, don't." Unless it's an actual spin, but I would think simple spins would be easy to recognize, especially with how long you've played.

[hellrazor]

I wouldn't think it requires memorization. It's simply a case of "If I'm about to turn my back, don't." Unless it's an actual spin, but I would think simple spins would be easy to recognize, especially with how long you've played.

Fair enough, I rarely actually do a back-to-screen, but in order to avoid it if I have to use the same foot then the chart doesn't play smooth. Like a 624_624_624, it's jerky to use RLL_RLL_RLL and more appropriate to do RLR_LRL_RLR and spin but then I'm facing away from the screen and if the simfile artist didn't anticipate me doing that to spin me back to front then my enjoyment of the steps diminishes. And if the steps come to fast for me to spin then it just becomes a big sloppy mess. If you really want me to do RLL then it should be a FREEZE on 6 to keep my foot planted. A BEST simfile author should be able to anticipate someone with proper technique trying to play their chart and still make it enjoyable, thus I feel I am justified in my judging.

It's also difficult to know an actual spin when your default speed modifier is in the 500BPM range, so when you think it's a spin and it was just a double-step there's not always enough time to fix it and you have to try hitting arrows backwards.

[Zounder]

I understand that, I'm more referring to instances in which the double steps are a 4th apart. For example, a L U R D pattern of quarter notes would normally leave your back to the screen but since they are 4th notes I feel like it's much more comfortable to double step them than have to try and find a way to return facing forward, but I guess it's different for you.

(EDIT) I disagree about the comment regarding "proper technique." It's clear it's a different preference for you, but it's pretty clear to me (and I think many others) that the "proper technique" is to double step when needed so you don't end up facing backwards, and to spin when you recognize it's a full spin. Why would facing backwards be considered "proper technique?" I can understand it being your preference, but to call it proper is a bit egregious.

Just a heads up: There's a lot of those instances in Gangnam Style, mostly in standard but a couple in Heavy towards the very start. I created those patterns with the intention of the player not attempting to spin them, because they would result in the player being backwards. I guess I should expect a pretty bad score from you!

(EDIT 2) I just noticed your comment about 500BPM modifiers. I think that might be the problem here. These files were created with the intention for them to be played at their actual BPMs, and thus the player can recognize spins from non-spins. I think by playing these files at 500 BPM you're not giving them a proper chance, especially when your scoring method is so heavily based on technical issues than can be rectified by playing them at their actual BPMs.

[hellrazor]

I understand that, I'm more referring to instances in which the double steps are a 4th apart. For example, a L U R D pattern of quarter notes would normally leave your back to the screen but since they are 4th notes I feel like it's much more comfortable to double step them than have to try and find a way to return facing forward, but I guess it's different for you.

Just a heads up: There's a lot of those instances in Gangnam Style, mostly in standard but a couple in Heavy towards the very start. I created those patterns with the intention of the player not attempting to spin them, because they would result in the player being backwards. I guess I should expect a pretty bad score from you!

I'm sure Gangnam Style will progress and who knows maybe the spins will work, I haven't tried it on pad yet, or with how long it took me to judge B1-1 I may not get to it.

[Zounder]

I can assure you that a spin will only work once on heavy, and even then its fishy, haha.

(Also, I edited my previous post after noticing something else you mentioned.)

[DjJRun]

Whew, you must really hate a lot of old DDR charts. I recall many, many of them not stepping 'smoothly'.

I personally also think needing to repeat a foot can serve musical purposes, really. For example, the entire ending stream of Heavy for Healing Vision Angelic Mix? That one causes a repeat-foot about once a measure, and I thought that made for intense 'accents', reinforcing it as an intimidating chart. (Not to mention the slew of eighth note spins in the beginning on an approx 190bpm song, heh...)

[BLueSS]

hey BLueSS now that the scoring threads are up, just checking--we should rate every sub-bracket except our own, correct?

Yes, thanks for asking. You cannot judge the bracket your song is in.

[BLueSS]

Whew, you must really hate a lot of old DDR charts. I recall many, many of them not stepping 'smoothly'.

I personally also think needing to repeat a foot can serve musical purposes, really. For example, the entire ending stream of Heavy for Healing Vision Angelic Mix? That one causes a repeat-foot about once a measure, and I thought that made for intense 'accents', reinforcing it as an intimidating chart. (Not to mention the slew of eighth note spins in the beginning on an approx 190bpm song, heh...)

ITG (and possible other causes) has created this mentality that steps must "flow smoothly" since the hardcore ITG charts are really about hover-sliding your feet over the panels as fast as possible while holding yourself on the bar, and flow really matters when that's all you're doing.

[Zounder]

ITG (and possible other causes) has created this mentality that steps must "flow smoothly" since the hardcore ITG charts are really about hover-sliding your feet over the panels as fast as possible while holding yourself on the bar, and flow really matters when that's all you're doing.

The thing is, though, that hellrazor would rather attempt to half-spin the double steps leaving him backwards, which I don't think is a habit that comes from ITG, because I feel attempting to do half-spins leaving you backwards on a hardcore ITG chart would be even worse, especially if you have to hold the bar. I mean, you're probably right in general, but pertaining to the comments that initially spurned this conversation, I think hellrazor's motive is different.

[hellrazor]

ITG (and possible other causes) has created this mentality that steps must "flow smoothly" since the hardcore ITG charts are really about hover-sliding your feet over the panels as fast as possible while holding yourself on the bar, and flow really matters when that's all you're doing.

The thing is, though, that hellrazor would rather attempt to half-spin the double steps leaving him backwards, which I don't think is a habit that comes from ITG, because I feel attempting to do half-spins leaving you backwards on a hardcore ITG chart would be even worse, especially if you have to hold the bar. I mean, you're probably right in general, but pertaining to the comments that initially spurned this conversation, I think hellrazor's motive is different.

I just choose to judge files that way, sue me, that is by far my preference and if I learned it anywhere it was after DDR and before ITG back when I was learning how to simfile probably from Udderdude and his brother MJ, good technique matters in singles and most definitely in doubles.

Oh and I do hate some of the old DDR charts, although HVAM is not an offender, yes you have to play it backwards for a few measures in the end and there are high-speed turns in the beginning but that just makes it even more interesting. But the joy comes when a file has well executed spins and turns like many of the MungyoDance simfiles. I also don't hover my feet over the arrows when playing, I plant my feet firmly on each arrow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u9PlydSZQE

[hellrazor]

I can assure you that a spin will only work once on heavy, and even then its fishy, haha.

(Also, I edited my previous post after noticing something else you mentioned.)

I checked it out quickly, looks like there will be a 2 point deduction but I haven't tried it on pad yet, most of the patterns work just fine.

[Valex]

[HVAM is not an offender, yes you have to play it backwards for a few measures in the end

lol

[k//eternal]

omega gangster's spins are actually supposed to be spins but it's obviously a joke file so take it as you will

but yeah hellrazor try double-stepping the end of HVAM and you'll see what they were actually going for. i know that isn't your play style but yeah just try it

[will-i-am]

y3v0n is back!!!

[Zounder]

So will-i-am and I have just about exact opposite opinions on every file... except for Space Truckin'. Which goes to show how awesome that file is.