Community Pack - DISCUSSION

[hellrazor]

After digging out a video of the ITG Rebirth one again, I see patterns in it that are straight-up lifted from my chart.

I hate the fact they used the exact same sync gimmicks from DTX. I begged them to re-sync it to a constant 380.000 BPM with no gimmicks, but they kept it very similar to DTX unfortunately.
I wouldn't compare EC to Pluto. EC has a constant BPM throughout the entire song 180.000. Pluto has several REAL BPM changes throughout the song, this is very different. There are no DDR or ITG songs that use sync gimmicks like EC does (thankfully).

[Xythar]

Are you kidding? There are a ton of DDR songs that speed up, slow down and use stops arbitrarily, especially in the more recent mixes.

Anyway, you can always use c-mods if that stuff bothers you.

[hellrazor]

Are you kidding? There are a ton of DDR songs that speed up, slow down and use stops arbitrarily, especially in the more recent mixes.

Anyway, you can always use c-mods if that stuff bothers you.

Speed up, YES.
Slow down, YES.
STOPs, YES.
Arbitrary, YES.

Speed up to double speed with Stops thrown in to make the steps stutter OVER AND OVER, NO.

Speed gimmicks that cause the arrows to scroll slow-fast-slow-fast-slow-fast repeat 20 times where you have to memorize the GIMMICKS in order to play the song, NO.

Xythar, just name one DDR or ITG song that has a constant BPM and has 1/10 as many arbitrary speed changes and stops as EC does.

[Telperion]

name one DDR or ITG song that has a constant BPM and has 1/10 as many arbitrary speed changes and stops as EC does.

Fascination ~eternal love mix~ says hi.

[Oni-91]

Also as it MIGHT count, technically Chaos.

Also I've only just got round to playing EC, and even though I don't really have a thing for ITG-style files, I actually really like it. The speed changes are quite fun. For me, anyway.

[Xythar]

Xythar, just name one DDR or ITG song that has a constant BPM and has 1/10 as many arbitrary speed changes and stops as EC does.

Will four do?

Chaos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRdFVGo1EZM

Pluto Relinquish
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMzMzYEuGUU

Fascination ~eternal love mix~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJIKlYY3aI0

Saber Wing (Akira Ishihara Headshot Mix)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d_QioyZfAQ


I would say that while modern DDR boss songs are not quite on the level of Epileptic Crisis, they're pretty damn close. And you said 1/10th, these are definitely far in excess of that.

Besides it's called Epileptic Crisis, not Relaxing Funtime.

Speed gimmicks that cause the arrows to scroll slow-fast-slow-fast-slow-fast repeat 20 times where you have to memorize the GIMMICKS in order to play the song, NO.

Honestly this quote is making me wonder if you've played any DDR past Extreme Konami loves that crap now. And if you think Chaos is annoying in regular play, imagine playing it on sudden death (one combo break and you fail) like everyone had to do in Supernova over and over until they memorised where all the stops were.

Heck, when I was living in Nara, Supernova 2 had just came out and every day I saw people failing Pluto over and over (you generally get 3-4 combo breaks on the extra stage, depending on your score) because they hadn't been able to memorise the gimmicks perfectly. Just because the speed changes in Pluto (not Pluto Relinquish) actually go to the music doesn't mean you need to spend a lot of time memorising the gimmicks in order to be able to clear it, to say nothing of the songs I linked to above where they're completely arbitrary.

I mean, just look at this part of Pluto and tell me you're going to be able to combo that on a sight read, correct BPM or not.

[Xythar]

Oh and while I'm at it, I played Our Songs on pad today and there's nothing non pad friendly about it. You're given a whole beat of space between each of the dreaded RDLs to move your right foot back to the right, so complaining about something like that seems ridiculous, especially because I bet if the pattern was RDLDRDL instead of RDL RDL you wouldn't be complaining. That, or you could just spin. I would think that sanchny of all people knows how to design a pad file, so it's a little insulting for you to patronise him like that.

I'd hate to see how "pad unfriendly" you'd consider classic DDR charts like Break Down, Healing Vision Angelic Mix or Afronova.

[jammitch!]

Besides it's called Epileptic Crisis, not Relaxing Funtime.

Sigged for awesome. As I see it, if the player doesn't actually have a grand mal seizure when playing the song, I didn't do my job.

Stutter-steps (i.e. doubling the speed and pausing so the steps are back in line with where they would be if you didn't pause) are one of the easiest gimmicks to read, too, so I'm not sure why they're worth complaining about. EC goes way beyond that, and does some stuff that's just downright unfair, but all good boss songs have a gimmick. EC's is "rape your brain with a cordless drill". The song was designed, written and named to allow these gimmicks. And even within DTX, I think it was the only song like this. This was well before any of Xythar's examples, so it would have been quite unique among released music game songs... and that's just fine. New stuff has to come from somewhere.

(We experimented with doing a swung song POST-style (speed goes 2-1-2-1 and the notes go blue-red-blue-red but are played on 12ths) but I think that one got cut.)

Plus, I keep saying this, and I'm not sure anyone's noticed, but if you play the hard chart, the steps cue the gimmicks. It's a puzzle! It's not supposed to be easy. It's supposed to keep high-end players feeding the machine.

Context!

[hellrazor]

I mean, just look at this part of Pluto and tell me you're going to be able to combo that on a sight read, correct BPM or not.

Point made, wow I spend WAY to much time playing with C-Mods, I didn't realize Pluto did that. It's still crap IMHO.