Bracket 1 - Discussion

Drunk Russians, drama with vegetables, and lots of approval voting!

by will-i-am » Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:05 pm

NOTE TO ALL REVIEWERS:

PRESENTATION IS NOT BASED ONLY ON GRAPHICS AND EXTRAS!!!

Did you reviewers even bother to read the judging scale??? When judging presentation, you must remember that it's based on the file as a whole. You can't just say, "ZOMG AMAZIN' STEPCHARTZZZ! 6/6" and then write, "The graphics were terrible 0/4". In the judging rules, BLueSS specifically stated that when judging a file, there are 2 examples that pretty much sum up how to judge a simfile's presentation:

BLueSS wrote:To Illustrate the point:
Ex 1: A well-polished simfile by someone with experience gets a full score because it's on-sync, has excellent graphics, superb steps, and is a great song for DDR. It does not have any extras aside from a cd-title.

Ex 2: A simfile by another artist who isn't good at graphics deserves a full score because the animated graphics make up for the okay regular ones, as well an an additional chart or doubles, or something else.


Presentation doesn't mean extras, which is exactly why this year it's called "PRESENTATION". It's not fair if a simfile has amazing steps but is deducted points just because he/she can't make amazing graphics. Also to note, if a file has decent steps and the extras make up for them, they file should get full presentation points, which I don't see as being the problem since everyone is taking the presentation area of judging as graphics/extras.

The new judging system was made for a very important reason: TO MAKE JUDGING A MORE FAIR AND FRIENDLY PROCESS. Let's try to keep it that way.
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by BLueSS » Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:25 pm

will-i-am wrote:PRESENTATION IS NOT BASED ONLY ON GRAPHICS AND EXTRAS!!!

Truth is spoken.

I'm guessing most of the people aren't used to the switch in judging yet, and are just defaulting to the way everything has been before? :?
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by will-i-am » Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:36 pm

Hopefully, because I really like how the judging scale is set this time around. It's deffinately a lot more unbiased.

BTW, I've noticed that I always seem to get what you're talking about, BLueSS, or I at least remember stuff you say.
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by Hainaut » Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:48 pm

Why is presentation affected by step quality if that department is already over half of the simfile's grade?
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by BLueSS » Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:52 pm

#Infinity wrote:Why is presentation affected by step quality if that department is already over half of the simfile's grade?


I'm guessing you're commenting about the following: ?
Also to note, if a file has decent steps and the extras make up for them, they file should get full presentation points

I don't think that was quite was he was trying to say, when he said it that way.
It can be read that way though, but they shouldn't. I think he was just trying to re-emphasize that a file with graphics that suck but extra charts or animations and other stuff should still receive full presentation points, even for files with good steps.

But steps shouldn't be in the presentation part; presentation is for EVERYTHING else, but steps. :)
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by Xythar » Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:24 pm

ranatalus wrote:well, to argue against the "it's only 2:36" then it should've been pretty easy to say, cut out a second verse and make it closer to 2 minutes.


So a second verse makes it worth a 0?

I'm sure your time is valuable but I'm also sure you can spare 36 seconds of it to ensure every file receives a fair review. Giving a file a 0 (which in my opinion should be reserved for a file that literally is not there) solely based on song length does not seem fair to me.

Note that I have not played the file in question yet or indeed any of the files (haven't been able to download the bracket yet) but I think my point still stands on general principle. And there was no need to link to Goldwave or whatever because clearly the song had been cut down from its original version, given that IIRC the original version is much longer than 2:36. It's not a case of "no effort put into song cut".
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by Jezendar » Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:41 pm

All in all, I must say I've been pretty disgusted by the behavior I've seen on this site thus far. Among other things, I have seen:

- One guy rating a song as a 0 purely because it happens to be a long song.

- One guy who is calling people idiots because they happen to hold a different opinion from his own.

- One guy who is flamebaiting people and throwing insults at other sites (and who is apparently one of the people in charge here, no less).

- And one guy, who I would've expected better behavior from, who has decided to quote the above insult in his sig file.

Overall, I thought the good behavior exibited during OSC BoNG meant that we had moved beyond the problems of OSC 5, but I was evidently wrong. I had planned on spending the time needed to do a public review myself, but at this point, I think that time could be better spent starting up my DDREx Revisited entries. After all, DDREx may have some issues to work out with its public votes, but at least we can treat each other in a civil manner.

And speaking of civil, I'd like to say thank you to will-i-am for remaining largely constructive when he pointed out the rules concerning presentation. What BlueSS talks about is clearly not the only thing you get, and I know you're not the only one here who gets it, either. With people like you participating, there may still be hope that this competition won't get dragged down like some previous ones did.
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by BLueSS » Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:13 pm

Jezendar wrote: - One guy who is flamebaiting people and throwing insults at other sites (and who is apparently one of the people in charge here, no less).

While I do have people helping me out a lot this time, I just wanted to point out that I'm still the only one really in charge here, and what they say is 100% their own words, and not necessarily my opinions. And the insult towards other sites shouldn't have happened. The author wishes it would have died, but with the sig quoting it didn't.

I hope that while there may be frustrations with the way different tournaments are ran, that no one should put down any of the people from any of the sites for the time and effort put into their tournaments. I have always appreciated the work everyone at DDREX has done to help further the DDR sim community, and I regularly talk to the guys over there.
And while I say this is the best simfile tournament this summer, it's only because it's the one I'm running and of course I'm going to be biased. :lol:

I think everyone just needs to take two small breaths and calm down. Have some iced tea if needed. :P
There's no way in heck I'm going to allow crappy judging or reviews of any kind to be let through. You can have my word on that. If I spend this much time and effort into running it, stupid reviews aren't going to mess it up.

Come on guys, everyone just relax. I'm glad it's anonymous, because I think people would be going more apeshit if it wasn't.

But this is a simfile tournament. This compared to it's importance in life = umm, maybe $30; but that's about it. I got $30 in tips working at a Fair today, so it's not. that. much. to argue about tournament after tournament.

People never let go their pet peeves either. I find that really rediculous. So a file isn't synced and the gap is barely off. So you think song choices still suck. So the graphics aren't good. So what if it isn't 100% exactly like what you'd see in DDR.

Is this Konami? No. Is this a summer tournament to have fun? Yes. Are people going to try new things to make it fun - I sure hope so!

So everybody just chill the heck down. I could care less who you are or what type of internet reputation you think you have, get off your soapboxes, all of you, and have a good freakin tournament. :P
Last edited by BLueSS on Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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by Dark Luke » Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:14 pm

On step difficulty: when a song has a difficult chart on heavy, people seem to ignore the presence of the medium difficulty regardless of the difficulty rating? (especially one that's in someone's preferred playing range)

For example, several different files contain a 7 foot chart on any one of the difficulty sets:
3/6/7
5/7/9
7/9/10/12
2/3/5/7
will all of these 7 footer charts be considered equally as 7 foot heavy charts?
Last edited by Dark Luke on Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Hainaut » Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:16 pm

With the noting of some of the apparent drama occurring right now, I'd like to make some honest confessions. Personally, compared to, say, OSC 5, I don't think the boards have been completely disastrous and/or dramatic - it's only headed that way if it gets worse from here.

There have been some controversial matters, but I think they have been delt with rather soundly so far. There were plenty of dogfights during TM6 and OSC 5, which I have yet to see over here. I'm personally not irritated by the level of drama right now, and I'm finding that any disagreements have been simply addressed without any major hatred or vulgar language.

As for the four people who Jezendar decided to point out for "acting dramatic" on the forums so far...

Rantalus - I don't agree with his rating at all, but we can't agree with everything. If he stubbornly ignores reconsidering his fairly benign mistake, then I can see why there'd be a problem.

Ebisumaru - I don't see how he's completely disrespecting other people's opinions about some of the files in this competition. I can see why he'd be surprised to find his personal favorite entry in the competition being compared to something like Over 9000. Notice that he didn't go, "YOU'RE F**KING STUPID FOR RATING CAFE CAFE THE SAME AS OVER 9000". I'm sure he was just shcoked and a little curious, and even though he doesn't agree with cpubasic's justification, he still makes a valid point.

lrxevan - Again, I think this person is being overlooked on the wrong side of things. He hasn't really made any particularly spiteful remarks. As for "insulting other sites", he isn't aiming anything against the_ditz or Rage* themselves (as he stated to me in a PM); it's just the current ruleset that isn't quite perfect yet. It can be improved in the near future.

#Infinity - I quoted lrxevan's statement because it was entirely something I could easily relate to after my bad luck during the last couple of simfile competitions held at DDRExtreme.co.uk. I clearly stated in a post here that I had nothing against the site; I just happened to really agreed with him. As I already mentioned, the rules just need a few changes to prevent unfairness in the final results as I feel I have experienced far too much now. the_ditz is a very wise and hard-working man who I give every bit of respect to, and anything I might post regarding DDRExtreme.co.uk is only to help matters, not to hurt them.
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by IcePagoda » Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:54 pm

Another simfile contest, another drama fest... :lol:

I'm still waiting on someone who has received low scores from public review spill the beans on their file, get DQ-ed for making their file visible, and making the whole 'guess who did what' thing meaningless. :?
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by tammie » Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:44 am

Wait, was I being referred to in Jazendar's post? I thought that was about somebody else. I don't think I've been rude at all during this contest. I think I was fair in thinking that a 1.5 for Cafe Cafe is totally unfair... I'm tired of the drama too and I no longer like to participate in it like I have in the past. I'm sorry if people think I'm starting drama, because I don't mean to. The best thing is to just ignore the drama and not take part in it. That usually causes it to end.
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by Jezendar » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:41 am

Ebisumaru wrote:Wait, was I being referred to in Jazendar's post? I thought that was about somebody else. I don't think I've been rude at all during this contest. I think I was fair in thinking that a 1.5 for Cafe Cafe is totally unfair... I'm tired of the drama too and I no longer like to participate in it like I have in the past. I'm sorry if people think I'm starting drama, because I don't mean to. The best thing is to just ignore the drama and not take part in it. That usually causes it to end.


I was talking about someone else, actually. Specifically Raf, who refers to the public reviewers as 'complete idiots' in the first page of this topic because they don't like double-steps as much as he does. I would agree that you haven't been rude here.
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by Hainaut » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:24 am

Oh, sorry Ebisu. I suspected this was the case because your argument with cpubasic lasted a few posts, and I wasn't sure where it would go had it continued.

I can see why disrespecting others simply because they don't enjoy double-stepping as much. Maybe he found them to be fairly ignorant because of this, but really, it's not really a big deal.
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by Wellian » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:05 am

I'm "enjoying" this thread. Sure one or two things being said are being a bit OTT, but I have plenty of genuine reasons for "enjoying" it. Of course, I'd rather enjoy this thread than "enjoy" it, but there's way too much messy stuff for me to be able to drop the inverted commas.

Most of all, I feel my file is doing its job quite nicely. :)
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